I do believe you are quoting Ignatius’ use of the phrase “Catholic Church” out of context. What he wrote to the Smyrnaeans was:

See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.

He was instructing the Smyrnaeans to obey their bishop. His statement was an echo of Jesus’ words that where two or three are gathered in his name, he is there in their midst.

And again, with Cyril. He was writing against the heresy of the Marcionists and the Manichees and pointing out that everything called “the Lord’s house” does not necessarily worship Christ as Lord. He distinguishes the “Catholic Church” as those who ascribe to the Nicaean Creed, which he calls “the Article”:

But since the word Ecclesia is applied to different things (as also it is written of the multitude in the theater of the Ephesians, And when he had thus spoken, he dismissed the Assembly), and since one might properly and truly say that there is a Church of evil doers, I mean the meetings of the heretics, the Marcionists and Manichees, and the rest, for this cause the Faith has securely delivered to thee now the Article, “And in one Holy Catholic Church;” that thou mayest avoid their wretched meetings, and ever abide with the Holy Church Catholic in which thou wast regenerated.

And if ever thou art sojourning in cities, inquire not simply where the Lord’s House is (for the other sects of the profane also attempt to call their own dens houses of the Lord), nor merely where the Church is, but where is the Catholic Church. For this is the peculiar name of this Holy Church, the mother of us all, which is the spouse of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Only-begotten Son of God (for it is written, As Christ also loved the Church and gave Himself for it, and all the rest,) and is a figure and copy of Jerusalem which is above, which is free, and the mother of us all; which before was barren, but now has many children.

Neither of these statements apply to the Roman Catholic Church specifically but rather to the universal heritage of all Christian churches who adhere to Nicaea. What emerged as the Roman Catholic Church came about as the line between empire and Christianity dissolved and the Church became Roman.

>”Adherents: 65 million US, 1.5 billion worldwide”

That’s very generous of you to cite 1.5 billion, but the actual number is just below 1.2 billion. While still growing at about 18 million per year, Catholics won’t reach 1.5 billion until later this century. Hopefully by 2050, Catholics will be the majority faith in America. The demographics look good for that to occur.

>”Founded: c. 400 AD, broke with Orthodox in 1054″

The simple fact that about 347 St. Cyril said: “If you are visiting in any city, ask not simply where the Lord’s house is, or only where the church is, but ask where is the Catholic Church, because the religions who treat the church with abuse, irreverence, or contempt also attempt to call their own buildings houses of the Lord.” This alone is sufficient to disprove the c. 400 AD date.

Also, the name “the Catholic Church” is found for the first time in the letter of St. Ignatius to the Smyrnaeans, written about the year 110 A.D. Any Protestant that has ever taken time to read the surviving letters of Ignatius will readily agree that Ignatius is Catholic with a capital “C”.

I also to take exception to calling Catholicism a denomination. The very word denomination is of Latin origin and means “from the name” As the Catholic Church did not denominate, it is not a rightly denomination. All the Protestant chuches did denominate, either from Catholicism or from each other, such as Baptists and Methodists from Anglicans.

God bless…

+Timothy

I would agree with most of what you have written here. It is interesting to note your (not-so) latent concession that Catholicism may in fact be “Christian.” You are obviously not Reformed!

I would like to read your take on some of the things that have separated Catholics, Orthodox and Protestants in general, Evangelism in particular. What are the fundamentals for you personally? Do you struggle to reconcile with some of the more prevalent (and arguably “core” ) “Catholic” beliefs of the early Church Fathers (i.e. Eucharist as the center of worship, Apostolic Succession, Baptismal Regeneration, etc)? Granted, some would say this loads the question in Catholicism’s favor. I think many (and more prominent) Church historians make allowance for these beliefs, however. Whether one considers these beliefs in error, misguided or irrelevant is another matter…

I enjoy reading your blog. I am in southern NH. Will keep you posted on the class thing.

Luther for example was content to remain a part of the greater church, but the power mongers who ran the “Church” found him a threat. He sought only to call the faithful to God’s Word, the message of Jesus.

The essence of the church has always been Jesus, and where he is exalted, the church is is strong. Where he is not (whether in the Catholicism of Luther’s day or in the lately-come Baptists of this past century), the church is weakened by the human power and message.

I do not know if you live in the Southern NH region, but I think you would enjoy the class I will be teaching. Unlike most Protestants, I do not believe that “the faithful” have always rebelled against the Church-at-large or been nonconformists.

My point is not to argue for Catholicism, but that the way we understand “church” (and all that that word means) within evangelical circles is largely a new phenomena. The power of the message contained within Evangelicalism has served us well. I credit Pastor Erik with adhering to this, while at the same time understanding that the church did not start with Calvin, being perfected by Scofield (though I think Reformed Theology is enjoying a resurgence, whilst Dispensationalism seems to be waning just a bit).

Much of what is called “Catholicism” today is a development of the medieval church. Certainly the churches have a common heritage that we need to treasure and value rather than casting one part of our past aside because it doesn’t fit our own views of how things “should” be.